AU Computer Gaming Club
General Club Discussion - Programming KOTN
Coyote - Mar 13, 2007 - 05:13 PM
Post subject: Programming KOTN
So myself, Kurt, Target, Byron, and Vandyl where talking about the KOTN application, and to cut a long story short it has become a competition. So here are the rules for anyone else who wishes to participate.
The application must:
Allow challenging.
Have a Ladder \ Ranking Systems.
Be able to store this information in a remote SQL database.
The due date for entry prototypes is Friday March 23rd, 2007 at 7:00 PM.
The implementation language or systems does not matter as long as it meets the requirements above.
Bandit - Mar 14, 2007 - 06:57 AM
Post subject: RE: Programming KOTN
this is a great idea.
PhukFace - Mar 14, 2007 - 07:09 PM
Post subject: RE: Programming KOTN
After talking this over with Ack; Since this is a Competition, the person or team that wins the competition will get into TigerLan for free.
So get together and start programming, and have fun!
fastbilly1 - Mar 14, 2007 - 08:36 PM
Post subject: RE: Programming KOTN
SQL, eh. That came out after Visual basic and TI82 basic...I have no chance. Ill just stick to making old pc games work on xp, and leave the real programming to you blokes.
Bandit - Mar 19, 2007 - 08:15 AM
Post subject: RE: Programming KOTN
well is it over? who one? Where are the products?
Coyote - Mar 19, 2007 - 09:40 AM
Post subject: RE: Programming KOTN
Not over till this Friday bro, today is the 19th
Bandit - Mar 19, 2007 - 10:03 AM
Post subject: RE: Programming KOTN
whoops.
PhukFace - Mar 19, 2007 - 11:32 AM
Post subject: Re: RE: Programming KOTN
Bandit wrote:
well is it over? who one? Where are the products?
heheh.
vandyl - Mar 19, 2007 - 12:11 PM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Programming KOTN
the 19th you jackass. the 19th.
Coyote - Mar 19, 2007 - 11:14 PM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Programming KOTN
thanks lol
vandyl - Mar 20, 2007 - 12:03 AM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Programming KOTN
haaahaha
you edited it. (TV Standards!)dammit - now everyone's gonna think I'm crazy
PhukFace - Mar 20, 2007 - 10:44 AM
Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Programming KOTN
vandyl wrote:
haaahaha
you edited it. (Tv Standards!)dammit - now everyone's gonna think I'm crazy
sure blame it on that...
Bandit - Mar 20, 2007 - 12:05 PM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Programming KOTN
the pink pony was enough for me.
PhukFace - Mar 20, 2007 - 01:15 PM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Programming KOTN
heheh, that and joining the army as a truck driver.
vandyl - Mar 20, 2007 - 08:47 PM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Programming KOTN
hahaha phuk you
Bandit - Mar 26, 2007 - 10:01 AM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Programming KOTN
OK NOW what is the status?
vandyl - Mar 26, 2007 - 12:04 PM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Programming KOTN
no idea - no one presented anything lawlz - wait til the end of spring break and we should have some news for you
PhukFace - Mar 26, 2007 - 12:44 PM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Programming KOTN
everyone loses, therefore the competition is null and void...[/actually i dont know]
i was thinking in addition to the whole thing with the challenge.
there should be a ranking thing, if someone refuses a challenge they lose points.
(this should help kurt since noone ever wants to play him in DoW or CoH)
Bandit - Mar 26, 2007 - 01:05 PM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Programming KOTN
Only one of the competitors actually contacted me and discussed the issues of the pasts systems used, and how they worked, and how they didn't work.
In the end forced participation is a bad thing. But incentives to participate are good.
PhukFace - Mar 26, 2007 - 04:09 PM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Programming KOTN
Quote:
In the end forced participation is a bad thing. But incentives to participate are good.
yeah i agree but then its not forced, just makes the competition better, imo. you dont have to accept the challenge, you just lose some rankings, or whatever. it doesnt mean you go back to noob status or whatever.
Bandit - Mar 26, 2007 - 04:30 PM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Programming KOTN
actually loosing ranking is a bit to strong. The system we found that worked better, was to give points to people if they participated in the participation ranking. Prizes were awarded to participators. In general we also noticed better participation if all ranks got points even last.
Then you rank the points earned. That in effect causes people who don't participate to loose rank, but it is less aggressive, and gives everyone an opportunity to pass each other up by participating more.
kurtmax_0 - Mar 26, 2007 - 06:51 PM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Programming KOTN
I'm still working on my project off and on. Nobody really showed up on the due date so I don't know how it's working tbh
I'm just coding it up in spare time though, so I might not even have a nice featured system for awhile.
Coyote - Mar 26, 2007 - 07:24 PM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Programming KOTN
I'm working on mine too, I told byron a week and a half was too short. I think that designing the system for "Today's Gamer's Club" is part of the importance of this competition though.
As people who are there every friday, we have the best view of what kind of ranking and ladder system will work, and more importantly, won't.
Bandit - Mar 27, 2007 - 07:07 AM
Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Programming KOTN
Coyote wrote:
I'm working on mine too, I told byron a week and a half was too short. I think that designing the system for "Today's Gamer's Club" is part of the importance of this competition though.
As people who are there every friday, we have the best view of what kind of ranking and ladder system will work, and more importantly, won't.
I'm glad you are working on it, but that has to be the MOST arrogant thing I've ever heard. Ranking and ladder systems have existed for years. I highly doubt you are going to 'invent' some brand new need that others before you haven't had already. But if you don't want any advice, congratulations you won't get any from me.
On another note at least one of you was very receptive to the points I made, and he added it into his already very interesting system. I expressly tried to tell him the 2 systems we had, what caused them to fall out of use, and thus what not to do. What to do was left as guidance and opinion, not as a commandment.
Coyote - Mar 27, 2007 - 07:11 PM
Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Programming KOTN
Bandit wrote:
I'm glad you are working on it, but that has to be the MOST arrogant thing I've ever heard.
Did you read your own post?
Bandit wrote:
Ranking and ladder systems have existed for years.
Maybe, but a computer managed one for a university college gaming club HAS NOT.
Bandit wrote:
But if you don't want any advice, congratulations you won't get any from me.
Is that a promise?
--
In conclusion, nothing I said had any attitude (until now), and your unprovoked attack on me does not reflect well upon you as a source of information.
I also believe that this is a unique situation. Also you do not have anyway to gauge my performance as a system builder, which makes your comment ignorant also.
The only arrogant one here is the person who believes that nothing can be done without his expertise and comments on everything. God forbid that an intelligent human being can come up with a simple\elegant system without design by committee.
I would rather make an attempt at something original and fail, than make another cookie cutter P-O-S. Especially if my source of information would be a know it all, conceded, opinionated, megalomaniac such as yourself.
I have always tried to listen to your opinions with an open mind, even when it was a bit of a stretch, but such an ignorant comment is a line to far. I don't burn bridges often, but today is apparently the day for a torching.
I would also like to quote your own forum quote. "none of us are as dumb as all of us"
That's all.
kurtmax_0 - Mar 27, 2007 - 07:35 PM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Programming KOTN
lol....
jokeyxero - Mar 27, 2007 - 09:19 PM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Programming KOTN
whaaa...
Let's put creativity into perspective a little:
- originality is great but it fails 90% of the time, though the remaining 10% causes great changes
- finding one of those 10% times takes 90% longer than using something that will fit 80% of the need 100% of the time
- using that something that will fit buys you time to be original and make improvements
So my advice:
- stop arguing
- just make something that fits the specific need, it just has to keep a score by game, person, and semester and sort those records
- after you've done that, make it cool or more useful
"Make it work, make it work right, make it work well."
PhukFace - Mar 28, 2007 - 02:38 AM
Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Programming KOTN
jokeyxero wrote:
- originality is great but it fails 90% of the time, though the remaining 10% causes great changes
- finding one of those 10% times takes 90% longer than using something that will fit 80% of the need 100% of the time
also you forgot that 90% of all statistics are made up.
PhukFace - Mar 28, 2007 - 02:42 AM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Programming KOTN
@ bandit, in all actuality UG is problem one of the most fair persons i have ever met, and very nonchalant and hardly ever arrogant(cept when we get in sniper wars) so the statement might have been a little harsh considering the person.
@ UG; build the proggie they way you think it would be best. screw what anyone else thinks. ifn they dont like it, well you will know afterwards anyways. but lets try to keep this civil.
@ face, i hate you.
vandyl - Mar 28, 2007 - 02:52 AM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Programming KOTN
lawz
Bandit - Mar 28, 2007 - 10:54 AM
Post subject:
Look dude. I don't really know you enough to take into account anything about your personality or ability. All I have to go on is a comment, now 2 comments that you don't want to discuss anything about how past systems worked for a while, why, and then ultimately why the fell into disuse.
Everyone knows I'm arrogant. Everyone knows I want to help. So I feel no need whatsoever to defend myself trying to help, or calling you on it when you don't want any at all. However, I realize I may be coming off as thinking I have the only input necessary to the system. What I am intending to do is give some input as to how things were in the past. I'm sure if you asked ANY of the old members who participated in the old systems they would be happy to give you feed back on why they liked it or didn't like it.
IF you continue to design a system for the CURRENT members only, you will be repeating the biggest mistake made last time, and the system won't last longer than the current members. IE less than 3 years.
Ack - Mar 29, 2007 - 12:38 AM
Post subject:
Let me say something....first, you two haven't met, you don't know each other. Hell, I've met Bandit once, and I'm president of the club.
Second, UG, you're a smart guy, I'm sure you can come up with something good, and I trust your competency on programming. I also know how much research you do into topics that interest you and so I have full confidence in your abilities.
Third, Bandit, I greatly appreciate that you still have an interest in the future welfare of this club. The vast majority of older members have completely lost touch with us, and the older members that do stay in touch are those that are the most recent graduates (xero and Fastbilly, for example). Thank you for your advice.
Fourth, and this is most important....SHUT UP. UG, work on your program. If you have questions, ask, and I strongly suggest you do. Bandit, if he wants your opinion on it, he'll ask you. If he needs advice on how the ladder systems worked at gamers, or how things have worked in the past, then he will talk to you. But as of this moment, since Scorpion isn't showing up anymore, I'm the longest-attending member at Gamers, and the last time we did King of the Net was my first meeting. It was Call of Duty, and I placed 4th, behind Fastbilly, xero, and Scorpion. I kicked ass the first two rounds and did awful on the third. I'm telling you this because I remember how the ladder system worked. And you know what? We haven't used it in the 3 year that the average member won't last.
So, recap: QUIT ARGUING. UG, keep older members in mind. Bandit, Gamers is not the exact same as when you left, the systems you had in place may not work. Something new may be better.
If it works, it works. If it doesn't, it doesn't. No more arguing.
Rebirth - Mar 29, 2007 - 12:48 AM
Post subject: why not?
why not let there be a change every 3 years- it gives a chance for younger people to experiment with some kind of programming and it would help in their experience to build things for the current group that they are with... why not facilitate the idea that those who believe they can introduce something new are perfectly able and supported to do so? Why complain that it is not the same as it was, claiming that a mistake is when something needs to be reformatted every so often? It doesn't seem like a waste- at least someone is willing to work.
yea, I know Ack said stop arguing...but... I thought I should point something out :p
Bandit - Mar 29, 2007 - 07:15 AM
Post subject: RE: why not?
@Rebirth: Well IF you built into the system the ability to adapt, you would at least be better than the past systems in that you admitted you couldn't make a perfect system the 1st, or 2nd time trying.
@Ack, thanks for your points. But I was trying to give others some advice, as if you read back the whole instigator of this KOTN ladder idea was me. So I thought that gave me some right to speak up about past KOTN ladder systems, and what I thought made the 2nd one better than the 1st. The whole argument between me and him I belive centers on the fact that he told me, he felt the gamers didn't need any advice at all, and I insulted his ability somehow. Which set me off on 2 levels. 1st, I have seen the ladder system work great,bring people together, broaden gamer perspectives and I've seen it die twice. I don't want someone to make the same mistake I made and Stick made, to make a system we wanted to play in, not considering change was inevitable. And finally in the 2nd-4th generations of the gamers, 3 clicks formed within the club. This all started around the 1st ladder system being made to make the 1st generation happy, while leaving the new people out. Those clicks nearly killed the entire club.
So you can tell me my opinion doesn't matter, you can ignore me, but I'm speaking out of deep concern that seeds aren't planted that destroy a club, Stick put his heart in to create, and I put my mind into to harden against time, Xero put in his world savy to fund. I only mention a few names, but the list is long of people who have poured their time into making this club outlast themselves.
All that being said, pay attention if you got to the end you won't see me doing this much.
@Coyote, I am sorry if I offended you, by implying you can't make a ladder system that will work. That was never my intention.
jokeyxero - Mar 30, 2007 - 07:07 PM
Post subject: RE: why not?
You can put in a big crazy automated ladder system or anything you want and have it do anything you want. But if you want to create something that actually gets used while you're there then it needs to be done fairly quickly, that is, within a semester. It'd be kinda hard to spend two-three semesters getting a beta ready just to have it completely outdated by the time you're ready to try it out on club.
Bandit - Jun 07, 2007 - 11:47 AM
Post subject: RE: why not?
Anyone still working on this stuff?
Kurt you have a PM
Coyote - Jun 07, 2007 - 12:38 PM
Post subject: RE: why not?
On and off. I hate school.
Bandit - Jun 07, 2007 - 01:00 PM
Post subject: RE: why not?
but school loves ...
... your money.