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D.I.E. |
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Post subject: TL 16 Poll Competition - RTS
 Posted: Mar 11, 2009 - 10:53 PM
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Moderator
Joined: Oct 29, 2005
Posts: 241
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RTS Choices:
Company of Heroes
Total Annihilation
Warcraft III: Frozen Thrown
Dawn of War 2
Halo Wars
Starcraft: Brood War
Please inform anyone who does not regularly visit the forums to vote.
Polls will close March 24th!
The polls are purposely put up with games that can be played on multiple consoles and therefore versions. Which system/version will depend on how many of each system/version show during the lan or an executive decision on my part. This means, if you have a preferred version, bring it and have any updates ready for the exclusive use during the tournament. |
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LJCamp |
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Post subject: RE: TL 16 Poll Competition - RTS
Posted: Mar 13, 2009 - 02:14 AM
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Joined: Apr 12, 2007
Posts: 21
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Bandit |
| Location: Madison Alabama |
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Post subject: RE: TL 16 Poll Competition - RTS
Posted: Mar 17, 2009 - 09:39 AM
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G0dlike
Joined: Feb 03, 2004
Posts: 855
Location: Madison Alabama
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What the heck? This looks like an RTS memorial. There is only 2 new games on the list.
Aren't we tired of WC3, Starcraft, and TA by now? Its been 7, 11, and 12 years respectively.
Perhaps this is why we don't get much participation in RTS, since we seem to avoid the new games like the plague. |
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katona |
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Post subject: Re: RE: TL 16 Poll Competition - RTS
Posted: Mar 17, 2009 - 04:25 PM
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Joined: Apr 10, 2008
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Bandit wrote:
What the heck? This looks like an RTS memorial. There is only 2 new games on the list.
Aren't we tired of WC3, Starcraft, and TA by now? Its been 7, 11, and 12 years respectively.
Perhaps this is why we don't get much participation in RTS, since we seem to avoid the new games like the plague.
We're not tired of these games because if you've followed WC3 or SC at all you'll notice that these games are still evolving strategically every few months and the metagame changes (especially thanks to people in the Korean televised leagues constantly struggling to get better).
On the other hand, a lot of other games just stagnate to a halt a few weeks after release or just the most recent balance patch if there even is one. Most of them seem designed for a casual gamer in mind who will play the game in a week and enjoy the plot and the shiny graphics and not realize the shallowness of the gameplay. There's nothing wrong with this at all, I play these games too from time to time. It just doesn't stand up to the test of time. They get old real fast to people that play primarily competitive RTSes like myself.
I don't like WC3 though, for other reasons. 
TA on the other hand... well. It's a deceptively simple game and while one of my favorites, unfortunately it didn't end up being very deep because of unit balance issues and various other factors. It's a shame that the 100 or so units for each race go to waste because 5-10 of those units are just miles better at everything than the other 90. I like it, I don't know why it's on the poll, but I haven't played it in years and if it's at tigerlan I'll play the kittens out of it and enjoy myself a lot.  |
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vandyl |
| Location: Madison, AL |
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: TL 16 Poll Competition - RTS
Posted: Mar 17, 2009 - 07:24 PM
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G0dlike
Joined: Feb 03, 2004
Posts: 651
Location: Madison, AL
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oh - not to mention many people avoid buying new games until after the price drops, or altogether because they either can't afford or choose not to upgrade their rigs.
It's been a while since I was at Tigerlan (due to other obligations, dammit) but I've noticed that far too often only a couple of people have the same latest games I have, which kind of sucks when you were really looking forward to some big games. IE UT3, Quake 4 |
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PhukFace: what d you get 72 virgins?
vandyl: yeah. unfortunately they were all members of either au gamers, au society of anime and manga, or both.
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vandyl |
| Location: Madison, AL |
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: TL 16 Poll Competition - RTS
Posted: Mar 17, 2009 - 07:26 PM
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G0dlike
Joined: Feb 03, 2004
Posts: 651
Location: Madison, AL
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As much as you might hate it, you know I'm right bandit  just don't cry. I couldn't deal with a blubbering bandit. Well, I could, but only once, and it'd be fatal haha |
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PhukFace: what d you get 72 virgins?
vandyl: yeah. unfortunately they were all members of either au gamers, au society of anime and manga, or both.
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jokeyxero |
| Location: Woodstock, GA |
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: TL 16 Poll Competition - RTS
Posted: Mar 17, 2009 - 11:29 PM
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Site Admin
Joined: Feb 04, 2004
Posts: 1345
Location: Woodstock, GA
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| New games don't exactly pull in the PC gamers, especially for competitions. |
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· xero
Webmaster - AU Computer Gaming Club
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LJCamp |
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Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: TL 16 Poll Competition - RTS
Posted: Mar 17, 2009 - 11:59 PM
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Joined: Apr 12, 2007
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jokeyxero wrote:
New games don't exactly pull in the PC gamers, especially for competitions.
The only exception to this statement is the upcoming SC2 >< |
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katona |
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Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: TL 16 Poll Competition - RTS
Posted: Mar 18, 2009 - 12:42 AM
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LJCamp wrote:
jokeyxero wrote:
New games don't exactly pull in the PC gamers, especially for competitions.
The only exception to this statement is the upcoming SC2 ><
yeah, most likely. It's not going to be out by Tigerlan 16 though. It's going into closed beta within the next 4 months though. We'll likely see a release in time for Tigerlan 18. |
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Bandit |
| Location: Madison Alabama |
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: TL 16 Poll Competition - RTS
Posted: Mar 18, 2009 - 09:35 AM
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G0dlike
Joined: Feb 03, 2004
Posts: 855
Location: Madison Alabama
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Oh I totally understand the not wanting to buy new releases. But what I don't get is 7 year old games on the list over games that are 0-3 years old. I refuse to accept the argument that there are no games with depth made in the last 7 years.
Are we seriously going to argue that we should be playing 7-11 year old games because Korea plays them in tournaments? What the <happy sunshine> does Korea have to do with Auburn Alabama Computer Gaming funding drive?
OK tell you what, I quit ranting about the horrid state of RTS tournaments and total lack of participation at Tigerlan since we quit playing any newish games. Instead I will dust off the ancient games and try knock the rust off my skills for the 3 games my personal skills caused the club to ban, back in the day. My hope is we start getting some participation in the genra or I drive this <super happy fun ball> idea to ground through total domination. But realize this is a total desperation move to try and save the PC RTS genra at TigerLAN. We have been having less and less participation, due to the fact that people will not play a game they know they will loose and don't play every day. The more we cater to the hard core never play a new game mentality, the smaller and more extreme our participation will become. Being that this is a funding drive I would have thought we would seek greater participation not less.
PS. Frozen Thrown? <- What's wrong with this picture? |
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vandyl |
| Location: Madison, AL |
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: TL 16 Poll Competition - RTS
Posted: Mar 18, 2009 - 09:05 PM
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G0dlike
Joined: Feb 03, 2004
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I personally would enjoy a DoW/CoH/DoWII tourney. I suck at rts but that'd be fun to watch.
For da greater good nigguh! |
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PhukFace: what d you get 72 virgins?
vandyl: yeah. unfortunately they were all members of either au gamers, au society of anime and manga, or both.
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LJCamp |
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: TL 16 Poll Competition - RTS
Posted: Mar 18, 2009 - 09:08 PM
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Well humorously enough, one of my friends wanting to come play in a wc3 tournament at this TigerLAN is fresh from Seoul, South Korea >< So the hardcore gamer population would be represented. Unless something drastic takes place, I currently know at least 3 guys wanting to come for it, and we'll probably have a larger group than that coming by the time this event starts.
But in response to the negative statements concerning "older RTS games".... There is a good reason why they're still considered.. they're still the best games on the market, the main two happening to be SC and Wc3. On an international scale, a WC3 player was recently named the 2nd highest paid (in salary) gamer of all time, bringing in a whopping 440k$ USD over the next three years... The problem isn't the games being picked, it's just the fact that the South (minus Florida) isn't an RTS hot spot. |
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Bandit |
| Location: Madison Alabama |
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: TL 16 Poll Competition - RTS
Posted: Mar 18, 2009 - 10:02 PM
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G0dlike
Joined: Feb 03, 2004
Posts: 855
Location: Madison Alabama
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You are incorrect about RTS players not showing up cause this is the south. I've run many a lan party and been to many a Tigerlan in the past where we had 20+ people playing in RTS games. But as of late, all we have been doing is letting the people who only play a single game, or only play Blizzard run this, through a fluke in the voting system, and the fact is it has run people off. I have brought a dozen people before and could again, but the key is to get them to think the population will show and we won't be playing the same games we played 10 years ago. I only cite that as a reference point which others here can attest to. I don't mention it to say I'm great, I just am old and have lots of connections/strings I can yank under the right conditions.
Often times the hard core people say they will show in force, sometimes they bring 6-8 or so, but then they are the only ones that play cause they scare off other players, because they want to get in practice before and usually show their specialization to everyone. They themselves many times get upset about coming for a tournament that ended up being a match with only their friends, and only get a minor prize.
Let me lay this out for you as well. I don't hate old games, I enjoy them. But not as tournaments.
I Loved SC
I Loved WC
I Loved TA
I even went so far as to spend large amounts of lan parties teaching new people how to play these games, I normally end up doing this for other newer games. But the fact is people don't like playing a game they KNOW they will loose, and hard core SC/WC players don't want to take the time to teach they want to play a tournament get a prize and leave.
I'm only judging from what I have seen in the LAN community over the last 11 years. So maybe I'll be wrong. I would enjoy it If I was, because that would mean the RTS population was back.
But as for me and my vote, it will be for one of the newer games. Such as CoH. Its been out long enough for people to know, I know enough to teach it, and it is new enough to attract players.
Finally, in debate class I would destroy you, but here I'll be nice. It is always a fallacy of logic to think a thing that has many supporters is the best. it is likewise a fallacy to think a thing that has money behind it is better. You cannot prove there are no games that measure up to SC and WC, don't bother trying. It is rather audacious to think 2 games made more than 7years ago are the pentacle of the RTS genera.
But like I said, I will play your game Trebeck. |
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katona |
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Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: TL 16 Poll Competition - RTS
Posted: Mar 18, 2009 - 10:22 PM
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I don't think it has any thing to do with the stuff you're talking about.
1) The southeast is the least popular part of the country, possibly the continent, for RTS gaming. Mexico has more RTS gamers than the Southeast. Well, I suppose we can beat Alaska.
2) NOT ENOUGH ADVERTISEMENT:
Signs should be posted at/near the front doors of all the dorms, and doors of shelby, parker, haley center, the student union with a complete list of games, date, prices, and prizes etc. BIG letters on the names of the games especially the ones that will draw a lot of people (STREET FIGHTER 4, SMASH BROTHERS BRAWL, COD4 (not saying these games will win, but these games would bring a lot of people if people knew about the event)).
Perhaps someone in charge could get the dean of students or someone else to send out an email about it. I get a MILLION emails every time some event about UPC blowing their noses happens or something else I don't care about, why none for Tigerlan? This is a must.
edit: I just got ninja'd. lol
RTS games seriously don't bring in people in this area. People in other parts of the country will travel a hundred miles to play Starcraft, Warcraft 3, C&C3, etc. Not so down here. |
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LJCamp |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 19, 2009 - 12:32 PM
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Hehe, well I suppose I'll sit here thankful that this isn't "debate class," but here are a few thoughts.
Like Katona and I both said... it's as easy as this, the southeast (minus Florida) is the weakest region of RTS gamers in continental United States, and arguably in the world.
It was also reasoned that games like SC and WC aren't good LAN RTS games because the hardcore players scare off friendly users? Believe me, the hardcore populations of single old school games like WC and SC is much larger than the population of casual RTS gamers that show up to LANs looking to learn/dabble in new RTS games. That is not what keeps the RTS genre afloat. Halo, GOW, Smashbrothers. Those are games that newcomers can pick up, and still enjoy while they get slaughtered. RTS is not the same by any means, considering new user will spend hours or days staring at all the options with no hope of getting lucky and winning against a better player.
These newer RTS games aren't the fix. With new games, all of the oldschool RTS gamers really won't care to come get their asses beat in some game the younger kids might have fooled with previously. With the old games, you attract both those who ONCE played the game, and those who still currently play the game.
The only reasonable new game on that list is Halo Wars... I'm sure it would be a bitchin' time to watch everyone noob it up for some prizes.
Regardless, I would like to see WC3 or SC played. |
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jokeyxero |
| Location: Woodstock, GA |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 22, 2009 - 09:27 PM
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Regardless of RTS popularity in the south, the real reason for low attendance is a lack of advertising. The prizes tend to piss people off lately as well. They don't like getting a $20 prize for a $20 entry fee.
There is a slight Catch-22 with katona's recommended advertising. Namely, what we need for game suggestions and the voting process is people to both suggest and vote, we can't get those people without advertising in some way, but your advertising requires that we already have the voting finished. That aside, we had a system of voting and advertising that was supposed to handle that, it just hasn't been followed. Previous attendees vote and early adverts go out urging new people to vote, vote is finalized two months before the LAN, then heavy advertising goes out noting the competitions. We've only manged to do that 3-4 times. We need more self-motivated people running the show really. We also need a lot more networking, namely advertising at other LAN parties and gaming events.
The "LAN Spirit" is not alive and well in the current generation. It's too easy to sit at home now and play games with your friends while shouting at them over the microphone. That's hurting attendance as well, especially with our core audience, i.e., the [lazy, asocial] college gamer.
TigerLAN stopped being a fundraiser many years ago. Its main purpose as of late has been to introduce people to new games and new friends. I'd have to say we've been failing at those though. The competitions are really to get people in the door that we know like the play games, a lot. It's the time between them that's supposed to matter -- that's why competitions are so simple and short. They're not the focus, just a bonus. We haven't communicated that well apparently. I can't attest to the motivations for picking the current game lineup though since I wasn't there for it.
But none of this is really appropriate for this thread, so if you want to talk about it, start another. Back to the RTS competition talk! |
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· xero
Webmaster - AU Computer Gaming Club
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kurtmax_0 |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 23, 2009 - 07:03 PM
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Color-Swapped Ninja
Joined: Oct 23, 2005
Posts: 1083
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I agree that many of the 'older' games are detrimental. I've stopped playing in the tournaments at TigerLAN the last few times. I've left early as well, since it wasn't worth staying overnight (seems like most people actually sleep now.. and, er, hasn't been as large of a turnout).
I really enjoyed when we were playing 'different' games. I played in the HL2DM tournaments, and also the DoW tourneys.
None of the games currently on the voting list really interest me. I might want to play CoH if it wins, but I probably won't since I don't want to pay $20 for one tourney.
The Blizzard/CS crowd really bores me. Blizzard has delivered uninspired games since, well, since they started. Their entire IP is ripped from GW. It's a fact... don't try and defend Blizzard in this. They may have gotten their games 'just right' for the masses, but that doesn't make them 'ultimate tournament games that must be played in every tournament ever existing'. |
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katona |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 25, 2009 - 12:13 AM
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kurtmax_0 wrote:
I really enjoyed when we were playing 'different' games.
So, by 'different', you mean the games you play all the time already anyway? |
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jokeyxero |
| Location: Woodstock, GA |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 25, 2009 - 12:56 AM
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Site Admin
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| My favorite times were always when we were playing a game we always played but by some contrived and arbitrary set of rules and/or objectives. Two-headed Counter-Strike for example: one person on keyboard one on mouse. |
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· xero
Webmaster - AU Computer Gaming Club
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Bandit |
| Location: Madison Alabama |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 25, 2009 - 08:48 AM
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G0dlike
Joined: Feb 03, 2004
Posts: 855
Location: Madison Alabama
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I had 3 ideas on that.
1. Training Tournament. No one who has played the game can touch the controls. The expert has to teach the newbie to play, and tell them everything, but they can't make them do anything.
2. Ring around the rosie. Play for 5 mins, then everyone moves one seat over. Play for 3 mins, move one seat over, play for 2 mins move one seat over, repeat until it ends.
3. Defenseless. You can only build buildings and workers. No offensive units, other than the minor ability of the workers. Any one with buildings that can get out of the range of the workers must delete their buildings.(ex. Starcraft Human flying buildings.) |
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