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Post subject: Need volunteers. Network code test for UT99 project.  PostPosted: Nov 30, 2007 - 11:43 PM
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1-3 volunteers 5 max. Trying to synchronize times with more then a hand full of people makes baby jesus (and me) cry.


Hello folks
Some of you know me, most of ya don't. For a while now(years) I've been doing a whole lot of game design work. After more or less finishing one project I came to the conclution that it takes far to long to do the codeing for a game of the type I'd like to do. Based on that I decided for now to focus solely on designing balenced underlying mechanics(rules) that any game I cook up can run on. That way I'm only tasked with building worlds(characters places events,ect) instead of doing the world then reinventing the wheel(gameplay) to suit it.
The closest thing I can think of to the work I'm doing now is the generic die rule system that pen & paper games run on. You can change the world/settings/charactrs/ect. but keep the basic underlying system, scale it a bit or not at all and the game still (should) fundamentaly work. (Be clear that what I'm doing isn't a die like system. Thats just the best example I can give at the moment without getting on the soapbox for two pages).

So far The actual generic system covers; Background gameplay (how player actions effects events elseware), body, mind(AI, actions independant of your inputs:think sims), meliee, guns, projectiles, Magic(think physics based environmental interactions without direct physical contact). In the future it will expaned to other aspects in hopes of hastening the whole proccess of building an experince(game).

What I'm trying to test out over a network is a proof of concept for the body aspect of my little scalable generic system. It's not the actaul design, just a mock up based on the mechanics behind the design. I've been working on it about a semester and a half.




Below is a mostly updated chart of the design I reference before codeing. Most of whats been planned and all of whats finished so far are all included. There might be some things missing cause of additions during the tweek proccess.
I really wanted to finish this before testing it and letting people play it. After having my car do a 180 in the street saturday before thanksgiving (cause some guy forgot how to hit the break) I kinda broke out off that mind set a bit. Besides, feature creep is a bitch and I love details as you can probably see if you read below. With playing the game all the time + feature creep + I don't like programming (I don't hate it but I don't like it either) I'd never be finished anyway.


Any volunteers?
Jamie

Hope you wern't expecting much. I've never made over a c in english.



------------------------------------------------------------My Notes: Feel free to skip------------------------------------------------------------

Over arching gameplay goals of all designs:
1.Player should always have something to take into concideration: mindless action is the enemy.
2.Player should be able to approtch a situation any way they like: never force the player to behave(play) a specific way.
3.Technique and stratagy cancel each other: Success depends on the quality of execution.



Mock Body mechanic model

General:

Small scale application of the mechanics developed in the Generic body mechanics model. For use in all experiences(games) done prior to the completion of coding the generic body model.




Body Components: Enables the identification, survival, traversal and/or manipulation of the environment.

Head - Done (1)
1.Hits to the head deal double damage and cause velocity to go to zero.

Torso - Done (1,2,3,4,5,6,7)
1.Hits to the body cause velocity to go to zero.
2.High damage hits cause body to collapse.
3.Hits while in air cause body to collapse.
4.Hits to the body cause change in rotation. Change is scaled based on damage * momentum
5.Change in rotation due to impact indicates direction hit from. *needs tweeking*
6.Crouching during impact decreases change in rotation due to impact.
7. Moving during impact increases change in rotation due to impact.
8.Hits from the side require 25% less damage to cause collapse.
9.Hits from the back require 50% less damage to cause collapse.
10.Hits while crouching require ##% more damage to cause collapse.

Legs- Done (1,2)
1. The orientation compared to direction of movement effects speed.
a. running backwards reduces speed by 50%
b. running sideways reduces speed by 25%
2. Moving on inclines fluctuate speed. % of flux based on the incline.
3. Sprinting will increase speed ##%, (crouch+jump)
4. Sprinting doubles damage requirement for collapse,
5. Can’t shoot while sprinting.
6. Crouching immediately after landing increases distance possible to safely fall.
7. Crouching during landing decreases distance possible to safely fall.
8. Crouching immediately before jumping increases height possible to jump.




Inventory:

armorstructure = absorption/100
armorweight = armordensity*armorstructure

Body Armor- Absorbs damage before the body does. Alleviates impact strains on the body, at the disadvantage of putting weight strain on the body. Done (p1,p2,p3 / n1,n2,n3*)
Positive effects
1.Reduces rotation change due to damage taken.
2.Reduces push back. (Momentum exchange)
3.Stops velocity from going to 0 when hit.
Negative effects
1.Reduced speed based on amount of armor worn and it’s absorption amount.
2.Reduced max jump height(jumpz) based on amount of armor worn and it’s absorption amount.
3.Increased falling speed based on amount of armor worn and it’s absorption amount.
*Falling speed is kept the same while distance possible to safely fall decreases. Gravity is dealt with in terms of map zones. Not sure how to deal with gravity of a single actor. Note: velocity can be independently adjusted for each pawn but when the default gravity(zone) changes the velocity change needs to(some how) be accordingly scaled.


Powered Armor- Armor that produces an independent shield that absorbs damage before the armor or body does. Done (p1,p2,p4,p5,p6,p7,p8 / n3,n4,n5,n6,n7)
Positive effects
1.reduces rotation change due to damage taken.
2.Reduces push back. (Momentum exchange)
3.Stops velocity from going to 0 when hit. **rethink/drop**
4.Shield has no weight.
5. Shield regenerates.
6.When in high power mode (walk||crouch==true) shield has 100% absorption
7.When in low power mode (walk||crouch==false) shield has a max armor charge of 150.
8.Reduces/negates damage when head is attacked.
Negative effects
1.Time(energy) limit on use.
2.Time(energy) depletes faster when in high power mode.
3. Armor of activating device determines rate of shield regeneration
4. Armor of activating device determines max charge of shield
5.When in high power mode (walk||crouch==true) shield has a max armor charge of 90.
6.When in high power mode (walk||crouch==true) charge slowly decrease if charge exceeds max.
7.When in low power mode (walk||crouch==false) shield has 25% absorption.


Weapons/Ammo- Any weapon or ammo carried on the pawns body and the strain associated with carrying it. Done (p1)
Positive effects
1.Convenient access to weapons.
Negative effects
1.Reduced speed based on amount of weapons carried and there ammo amount.
2.Reduced max jump height(jumpz) based on amount of weapons carried and there ammo amount.
3.Increased falling speed based on amount of weapons carried and there ammo amount.
*Falling speed is kept the same while distance possible to safely fall decreases. Gravity is dealt with in terms of map zones. Not sure how to deal with gravity of a single actor. Note: velocity can be independently adjusted for each pawn but when the default gravity(zone) changes the velocity change needs to(some how) be accordingly scaled.




Health: The details of this part of the design are not satisfactorily fleshed out and balanced yet.

Healing- Done (None)
1.Any healing item or ability increases bodies’ max health(EXDMUT- max health)
2. Higher the difference between max health and health the quicker health regenerates.
3. Health regenerates when 75% < Stamina <= 100% of 100 health or max health if health>100
4. Feign death (collapse) state gradually increases health/max health(rate * 2).

Damage-
1.Max health goes down

Stamina- Done (None)
1.Max stamina = health.
2.Stamina increases while standing still or collapsed(rate *2).
3.If stamina > health stamina gradually decreases .
4.As movement occurs Stamina goes down.
5.20 Stamina points recovered cost one health point.
6.20 Stamina points recovered raises max health one point.
7.The extent of speed reduction on inclines scales according to Stamina.
a.75%< health< 100% of 100 health or max health if health>100
(No scale)
b.25% - health - 75% of 100 health or max health if health>100
(scale)
c. 0%< health < 25% of 100 health or max health if health>100
(Weapon down, stamina increases *2, Max health point cost *2)
8.The extent of Jump height(jumpz) reduction scales according to Stamina..
a.75%< health < 100% of 100 health or max health if health>100
(No scale)
b.25% -health- 75% of 100 health or max health if health>100
(scale)
c. 0%< health < 25% of 100 health or max health if health>100
( Scale, weapon down, stamina increases *2, Max health point cost *2)
9.If 0%<stamina < 5% of 100 health or max health if health>100 collapse.

Note: reword 7,8,&9 in terms of Stamina instead of health.
-----------------------------------------------------------------End of my Notes------------------------------------------------------------------

You may notice that there are a lot of conventions from other games in that rules set above. I'm actually curious of how many references you can pick up. I'm pretty sure russle can call out a ton in under 5 secs. Along with T-bird, russle is one of the people I know who both (owns & plays) the widest array of games. Anyone who has been to my place knows that I have a ton of random games in that room. Well that there above is why I keep all of them as my little reference library.

It's really hard/annoying to explain when people ask why I don't sell them all. If anything I actually need more sports/strategy/mmo references.




A few hints for russle: Super mario bros. 2, final fantasy 2, millitary madness, tenchu, armored core, counter strike, socom. +more
 
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jokeyxeroOffline
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Post subject: RE: Need volunteers. Network code test for UT99 project.  PostPosted: Dec 01, 2007 - 05:14 PM
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I'm up for it.

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Post subject: RE: Need volunteers. Network code test for UT99 project.  PostPosted: Dec 03, 2007 - 04:54 PM
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I suggest you change the way you've got the damage required for collapse --

ie - if moving forward and hit from behind (damage travels in same direction as player), damage required to cause collapse decreases
if moving forward and hit from in front (damage travels in opposite direction as player), damaged required to cause collapse increases

honestly, for the collapse damage, you'd probably end up running some kind of sin/cos equation to determine the effect.

(a body in motion tends to stay in motion, a body at rest tends to stay at rest)

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Post subject: RE: Need volunteers. Network code test for UT99 project.  PostPosted: Dec 03, 2007 - 10:54 PM
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not a body at motion with my motion...

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Post subject: Re: RE: Need volunteers. Network code test for UT99 project.  PostPosted: Dec 04, 2007 - 08:53 AM
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      vandyl wrote:
I suggest you change the way you've got the damage required for collapse --

ie - if moving forward and hit from behind (damage travels in same direction as player), damage required to cause collapse decreases
if moving forward and hit from in front (damage travels in opposite direction as player), damaged required to cause collapse increases

honestly, for the collapse damage, you'd probably end up running some kind of sin/cos equation to determine the effect.

(a body in motion tends to stay in motion, a body at rest tends to stay at rest)


I think you mean that the amount of damage inflicted increases, thereby the chances of collapse are increased [when the projectile and player are moving in opposing directions].

There is an optimization to be made here though. If the player moves head-on into a projectile, there will be no need to calculate extra damage from the player's momentum unless the projectile was moving really slow or the player moving really fast.

The effects of a bullet traveling at 700mph hitting a player will not be drastically different from a bullet traveling 720mph. You'll add what, 0.0001 point of damage?

But if you throw a baseball at someone at 60mph they will be mostly ok. But if they are running toward the ball at 20mph, that's probably going to hurt a hell of a lot more.

Same is true in the reverse. If a player hits a static rock at 20mph it is not going to hurt too bad. But if the player is traveling at 70mph, there's going to be pain.

So, unless the ratio of the two velocities is significant, it won't be worth wasting the cpu cycles to calculate the extra pain.

Though the idea of damage increasing from the flanks and rear makes sense, it's basically the idea of being flat-footed or flanked in D&D. You can't see it or it is an unstable angle, therefore the damage or chance of hit is higher.

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Post subject: quick reply  PostPosted: Dec 04, 2007 - 02:26 PM
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Thanks for the replys/suggestions. I've been dealing with this car & insurence company(who apparently I'm going to need to sue) stuff so I haven't gotten to a proper reply yet. I'm on my way to work so I'll post up something while I'm sitting on my ass tonight.

Thanks again
jamie
 
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Post subject: RE: quick reply  PostPosted: Dec 05, 2007 - 03:24 PM
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Damn cisco clean access has been ass on my laptop so couldn't log on the university network last night. I need to change my password for this site cause all the randomness of my given password isn't going to work for accessing the forum from any other computer. Anyway...

xero:

Thanks for the help,
Your going to need the 436 patch and the 4 bounus packs. All the test code was put into one class, thoughs little 4 arm nali people. They are who I use for all the magic stuff. The nali comes in one of thoughs(436 i think) but there are certain maps that suit the rule set better then the default maps so you'll need them. I'm in the process of moveing the code over to the other parent classess now so that other types of characters can be used. Actually I'm finished with that I'm just trying to deal with the bots being added to the game. I can modify a player logging in so that no matter who they pick a character bound by the rule set spawns. Bots don't 'log in' they are simply added which is something as far as I can tell you can't change with a mutator. So I'm going to need to make a game type instead of a mutator and adjust adding bots through the game type rules there. Untill then it's possible to manually pick a bot class that are bound by the rules under bot configuration or somthing like that. It's on the page were you decide how many bots you want in a match and what not.
How would you perfer me get the files to you.




vandyl:(xero)

The short answer-
Thats a nice detail to throw out. It definately fits within ...

"1.Player should always have something to take into concideration: mindless action is the enemy."

I also appretiate you giving some kind of direction to go as far as equations if I were to add it. After thinking about it, a situation that warrents it's use (considering the rest of the rule set) realy didn't present it self. As far as ways of calculateing it the game keeps track of the players velocity and any projectile that damages the player triggers a function call AddVelocity( momentum );. So basicly in the pawns'

'function TakeDamage( int Damage, Pawn instigatedBy, Vector hitlocation, Vector momentum, name damageType)'

After the momentum is added I could simply check the velocity and see if it exceedes a set amount, if so collapes. I could also check the difference between the momentum passed to the function and the pawns momentum after the call to addvelocity() which gets called reguardless. Afterwards useing that difference to scale the extra damage. I'm going to go out on a limb and say subtraction wouldn't bog things down much.
Wink


vandyl:(extra)
I saw 'the mist' the other day. I liked it although the ending was pretty much f'd up, not for the movie mind you just the character at the end. There were occational syrens but I think thoughs were the military. In general I was thinking it was going to be another thinne. If not that at least the town that roland walked through after getting off the train. I think the book said it was topika. I really need to start on the last 2 books. They actualy directly referenced the books at the beginning. the main character(an artist) had a gallery of I assume drawings of events from rolands travels.


Long answer in rout.
Jamie
 
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Post subject: RE: quick reply  PostPosted: Dec 05, 2007 - 06:51 PM
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Don't use Cisco Clean Access. You can access the network just fine if you use the VPN client.

Also... who are you?
 
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Post subject: Re: RE: quick reply  PostPosted: Dec 05, 2007 - 07:53 PM
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      kurtmax_0 wrote:
Don't use Cisco Clean Access. You can access the network just fine if you use the VPN client.

Also... who are you?


It's Jones...gypsy...Tang... Know your elders! ;oP


Hey Jones, you know that Firefox has spell check built into it now right?

Just zip it all up and send the files to my GMail account: jokeyxero. Of course, add @gmail.com to the end.

I'm not sure when I'll get to it. I'd like to this weekend, but things have been crazy.

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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: quick reply  PostPosted: Dec 07, 2007 - 07:43 PM
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Pootie! Damn, he threw out Tang. I almost forgot about the duo. Pootie tang gone "sine your pitty on the ruuny kine" Funny thing is I just watched big trouble in little china last night.
Pootie tang & big trouble in little china. Two movies so bad there good. I actually need to go back & watch all of pootie tang. I thought chris rock did that movie but apparently someone named ck louis did it. He also does stand up and had a show on HBO called lucky louie.

Anyway, yeah I should get the files out sometime this weekend. I need to atleast finish up the turn speed adjustments on the bots and that should give me enough time to do it. I didn't mention it above but everyone has the same turnspeed which is adjustable by the amount of gear your carrying around. I Need to get the bots at the same turnspeed as the players. With that said, I noticed there is more stuff then I originally assumed missing from my notes above. Concidering anyone who plays it will eventually notice the changes I assume it's not that big a deal to mention all of it. By missing stuff I mean stuff I added that never recieved a replication in the notes.

I have firefox on my other computer but not the laptop. Funny thing is the other computer has been giving me network errors. I'm in the middle of fixing it so I can't use it for internet stuff anyway. All the other computers can see each other and I can transfer files from the laptop to the rest just not the other way around. Thats also why I can't test the network code here at home, Unreal keeps handing me winsock errors. I Probably messed something up when I cleaned out the registry, I'll get to fixing it sometime.

Inevitable Question - "well why not install it on the laptop?"
Probable Answer- "Thats a good question."


Jamie
 
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: quick reply  PostPosted: Dec 09, 2007 - 08:57 PM
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I didnt catch any Armor Core references, but that must be because I didnt play any Armor Core games...The Mario 2 one is one of my favorite parts of the game. Though the soundtrack and atmosphere are both awesome aswell - stupid dreamworlds with potions that open other dreamworlds...

Looks like my kind of mod, gimme - though I do not know what kind of use I will be until next year. I will give you one guess at my email account, it is with gmail.
 
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: quick reply  PostPosted: Dec 10, 2007 - 09:22 AM
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xero: my observation comes from experience. I'm not suggesting he actually increase the amount of damage inflicted on the player's health, just that the impact on the player's balance be amplified when necessary. The amount of damage a pole does to your head is very little until you run headlong into it, and I get that (I think we all get that).

From my experience, when I'm hauling ass with a 70lb combat load (vest, helmet, weapon, ammo, etc), I'm not as likely to fall flat on my ass from an impact to my front, whereas a round up my ass will send me into a headlong dive to the ground and I'll end up pancaked in the dirt wondering who the hell just shot me in the ass (I thought my teammates were behind me, the phukers)

In short, my balance is easier to throw off when a force acts on me in the same direction I am already traveling. A gentle push is easy to recover from while a 12ga blast is not so easy.

Jones - I really enjoyed the movie, even though the ending was a bit different. It fit the movie well though. The sirens reminded me of Silent Hill. I'll have to go back and re-read the part where he leaves the train, but I'm not sure that's the town he walked through. Yes, it was Topeka that they were in. The town in the movie was a different place - but it does tie into the dark tower series. I'm just not familiar with the creatures.

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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: quick reply  PostPosted: Dec 10, 2007 - 05:12 PM
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Ok, I see what you mean now. It's about falling down collapse, not massive damage collapse. That makes perfect sense.

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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: quick reply  PostPosted: Dec 10, 2007 - 05:19 PM
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Yeah - and to really be accurate, he'd have to somewhat accurately model the center-of-mass/inertia interaction of both the player's body and the impactor. Running headlong into enemy fire, while stupid, would also likely result in me being hit and spun around depending on what side of my chest takes a hit (axial rotation induced by forward momentum meeting a momentum traveling in the opposite direction, offset from my center of mass depending on how far from my vertical center the impact occurred) -- ultimately, he'd have to expend some resources to CM (center of mass) calculations, and take into account the impact offset from a number of axes that exist in the human body. Is this feasible? Yes. Is it optimal? Probably not.

But I would definitely look into introducing some kind of sin/cosin relationship for the collapse check.

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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: quick reply  PostPosted: Dec 10, 2007 - 09:30 PM
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I still think that any game that has corpses that lay around for awhile, either with or without ragdoll physics, should cause damage if say their is an explosion and they happen to land on you or fly through your body...
 
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: quick reply  PostPosted: Dec 10, 2007 - 11:35 PM
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Finished. I'm going to test it about 30-40 min then get it out to you guys(provided nothing dumb pops up). I had to add some stuff just incase someone decided to play it like regular UT. It actualy plays a bit 'faster & bigger'.I don't know if that makes any sense but...ehh.
1. jokeyxero at gmail dot com
2. fastbilly1 at gmail dot com


Hint: Jumpboot = faster & higher
Jamie

Edited by face for sanctity of email addys so the dont get raped by bots.
 
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: quick reply  PostPosted: Dec 11, 2007 - 04:06 AM
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I sent the files out early this morning.

?Disclaimer or something?:
First off thanks very much for the help, any small thing is all kinds of appreciated. Sometimes I'm not sure how my personality comes across to people when it comes to me talking about game design. I have a wide variety of likes and dislikes in life(wish I could travel more/at all, actually) but this is the only thing I'm really passionate about. As I said before, I really don't like programing. The fact that the only way I can actually produce something I think up is through doing something else I have no love for, and going on 7-10 years now is what I mean by passionate. But know that whatever oddity that might pop up It's not from me trying to be an ass or anything, it's just conversation with someone that has deep interest in the subject. You guys who know me also know I'm laid back.

On with the show:
This could end up being str8t ass to you. I'd like to think I have no illusions on what this is(so far). But I do know what it's suppose to be which is something you can play in any manner you want and still have it gel with the play style of the other person/AI next to you. I haven't added the invisibility mode to the shield belt yet so you can't play sneaky yet. Nor have I added the capture/surrender functionality which I'm personally looking forward to. Which all goes to show this isn't some finished thing that I'm saying "hey look at this pimp shit I did !" it's definitely still work in progress and I'm enjoying every min. of its' progress. (except the codeing)
I Don't believe in fun games or fast paced, slow paced, cerebral, ect. games I believe in simply entertaining games everything else is just derivative of being entertained. So before the network stuff just go nuts and put that bitch through the paces. Play it however in hell you want. If It's not holding your attention play it a different way. If that still doesn't work for you ... simply stop playing(untill the network test). Maybe you'll like it as I add more, well actually this mock body part is damn near done. Either way you slice it there is only so much you can do if you don't modify the guns,game type rules, maps and so forth... so ehhh.

The Files:
I'd like you guys to come to grips with how the game is suppose to feel before testing it over a network. Truth be told I don't see It taking much play time over the network for me to get what is & is not being replicated. If anything takes awhile it might be the process of fixing something and retesting however many times it takes to fix it. I have a decent Idea of how the network stuff works in UT but I've never had to directly deal with it.

.U files and .Int files go into the system folder. The rest patch/Map packs are easy enough.

To set everything up from the opening screen...
Setup yourself: Options<Playersetup<Class"dark magic caster" (the Nali model(4 arm dudes))
Setup the bots: Game<tab:Bots<Configure<Class"dark magic caster" (the Nali model(4 arm dudes)) I suggest an 8 man game: 7 bots & you.

All the runs I've done were 8 player runs. 7 bots and you. I suggest the same on first go around. Please play through the maps in this order. These are also the most likely Maps & order I'll do the testing with.
Ctf-Nucleus (plz play in order but at the absolute least play this one first)
Ctf-face II
Ctf-EternalCave
Ctf-epicBoy
Ctf-Face
Ctf-Hydro16
Ctf-Ratchet
Ctf-Kosov
Ctf-LavaGiant

Mappacks
UTBonuspack1 :http://download.beyondunreal.com/fileworks.php/official/ut/utbonuspack.zip
UTBonuspack2 :http://download.beyondunreal.com/fileworks.php/official/ut/utbonuspack2.zip
UTinoxxpack :http://download.beyondunreal.com/fileworks.php/official/ut/utinoxxpack.zip
UTBonuspack4 :http://download.beyondunreal.com/fileworks.php/official/ut/utbonuspack4.zip

Enjoy the sniper rifle while it works that way.
Jamie
 
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jamiejonesOffline
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: quick reply  PostPosted: Dec 14, 2007 - 05:23 PM
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I'd like to try a network test anytime sun. or mon. afternoon, actually saturday is good aswell but i figured that might be to short a notice.
I have no clue if either one of you have found time to play or come to grips with how it works yet. If not then tell me and I can do it a different time. I can't imagine it takeing more then 2 hours(if that) of play time to get an idea of what I need to fix/change.

I'll email a copy of this post to you. I posted it here because there is room for 1-3 more people to participate if they choose to.




I just noticed that there is hardly any rules in place for melee(EX:impact hammer) action. I'm working on it.
Jamie
 
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: quick reply  PostPosted: Dec 15, 2007 - 07:42 AM
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I dont have it Jonesy. xero did you get it?
 
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: quick reply  PostPosted: Dec 15, 2007 - 09:31 PM
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Oh, well damn!?! I've been done with the test code for a while. I sent it out monday and again after my last post about the test date. It came as an attachment to both the emails I sent.

jokeyxero@gmail.com
fastbilly1@gmail.com

Edit: link to files and UT patch.

The network test files
http://www.freedrive.com/file/03b35ee38 ... 061053bff4

The bonus packs
1.
http://www.freedrive.com/file/5c0321b6b ... a44222fef9
2. http://www.freedrive.com/file/a3ecc3863 ... 1b652c6627
3.
http://www.freedrive.com/file/b7aee8033 ... 5ba337b4e1
4.
http://www.freedrive.com/file/41edce5cf ... 1d502d7bef



3rd times'(try) a charm?
Jamie


Last edited by jamiejones on Dec 15, 2007 - 10:56 PM; edited 1 time in total
 
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