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Goji_of_the_SquirrelOffline
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Post subject: Gamer Question  PostPosted: Oct 21, 2005 - 04:18 PM
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Crouching. Yes or no? Discuss.
 
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BanditOffline
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Post subject: RE: Gamer Question  PostPosted: Oct 21, 2005 - 05:44 PM
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Crouching is a predicessor to camping.

Camping, Just Say NO!

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Post subject: RE: Gamer Question  PostPosted: Oct 24, 2005 - 02:49 PM
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Can we truly relate Crouching to Camping, though? What about trying to decrease your hit box so as to take away the sweet taste of victory from the "Spray and Pray" players like myself? Aiming? What's that?

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Post subject: RE: Gamer Question  PostPosted: Oct 25, 2005 - 12:26 PM
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im gonna agree with el bandito here.

crouching = good, yet leads to camping which = bad...

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Post subject: RE: Gamer Question  PostPosted: Oct 25, 2005 - 01:03 PM
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So it can be said that Crouching is a gateway skill to Camping. Interesting. But, what of its use in singleplayer games? Did anyone crouch in Halo? What about Half-life? Conker's Bad Fur Day?

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Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 25, 2005 - 03:04 PM
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And how exactly is camping bad? Some games require camping (like battlefield: how are you supposed to defend a cp without camping?) and most of the games that don't require camping (like UT) you die if you are not constantly bunny hopping around...

I've been playing F.E.A.R. lately (which is fscking awesome btw) and crouching and leaning are vital to survival... I think you have about the same amount of HP as each of your enemies because if you are not behind cover you die...

I also used crouching and leaning and stuff in the RS series.

And probably a few other games too, but I don't feel like taking the time to remember..

EDIT: Oh, and to further the topic, what do you think about games that let you go prone?

EDIT2: Fixed typo


Last edited by kurtmax_0 on Oct 25, 2005 - 08:47 PM; edited 1 time in total
 
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Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 25, 2005 - 06:26 PM
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It's all part of the game. If its there it is a means to an end. Defending is not exactly camping. They only call it camping when they can't kill you and are thus annoyed. Run and gun isn't always the best strategy (actually, its rarely even a good one).

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BanditOffline
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Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 25, 2005 - 09:11 PM
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Camping is a term that came about during Quake 1 mulitplayer sessions. Basicly someone would get a big weapon, like a rocket launcher, and setup behind or above a spawn location, or some other critical place you had to show up, and just blast the large weapon in the area. So the orignal definition wasn't Camping but actually Spawn camping. Later it was generalized to just setting up in a unknown or inacessable location with a weapon and ganking people who were un aware of your location.

So what orignally was "you spawn camping son of a bitch" became, "I hate campers", "campers suck". So I was just continuing the generalization to "crouching sucks".

If you want my honest opinion, camping is not bad, neither is prone, or crouching, or any other game mechanic even non-mechanics like exploits. What is wrong is when you use anything in the game or out of it that affects it repeatedly and don't change strategy or use it every single time you are in danger of loosing. Everyone wants to win sometime. Or barring that everyone wants to have a chance at winning. TO over use any one thing causes people to think there is no chance at winning and thus quit trying. So if you want to continue playing a game don't use the same thing over and over change it up, you don't always have to win just because you can.

This was the single hardest lesson I have learned in my years as a gamer. I still have to constantly remind myself of it or I risk turning people off from the games I want to play.

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Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 25, 2005 - 10:48 PM
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I agree with you Bandit. There are many people that refuse to play most video games with me anymore Sad. So I started letting people win... sometimes...
 
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Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 26, 2005 - 04:29 PM
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Winning... losing... Perhaps we've missed out on the most important lesson of them all. Funocity. The ability of someone who is funning to have fun. Yes, I now see a clear point. Crouching is a gateway to camping, which is a gateway to winning, which is a gateway to a lack of funocity. Thus, Crouching equals suck. However, I am still in the bewonderment on the subject of prone. Prone, good or bad? Is it a greater level of Crouching? Can you become addicted to Prone? Is Prone where the Crouching gateway leads?

Game mechanics... a .50 calibur, insta-gibbing, hit-your-toe-and-you-die WMD. Perhaps they moved to the games from Iraq. Regardless, they're in games to stay. Thoughts on this? What decides if this is fair? Also, is an auto-shottie really that bad? Or is it a young girl's best friend? Discuss!

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Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 26, 2005 - 06:21 PM
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Well, here's my take on changing play styles to let people win....
...don't. I've had a major problem with losing to others in games I like to play. It's not the losing that I dislike. It's the other guy's reaction. PC games, sure, letting others win isn't such a bad thing since they aren't sitting right next to you. In fact, they usually have no idea who you are, so if they win, it's not so bad. They get happy, and you can smile knowing somebody is having a good day. Unfortunately, consoles aren't like that. Almost every time I lose at a game I'm good at, the other guy goes nuts, and puts on this long show about how he finally beat me, and how great it is, and how he's getting so much better, and I'm getting so much worse, and on and on, until...I just quit. I hardly play fighting games against other people now because it's just no fun listening to them act all high and mighty about winning a round, or whining so badly about how cheap I was being when they lose. Hell, I've had people rant for twenty minutes after beating me for one round in a five round match. It's annoying, and it really makes me want to just quit the game.

With Xbox Live and other new console internet programs, it's not so bad. I just turn sound off when I don't want to hear voice chat.

As for crouching and prone, it's not so bad in some games. I prefer sniping while prone at times, but it's not always a good idea. Sometimes you have to be able to move around, and prone will often get you killed by other guys. The running-and-gunning type will run right over you and pump you full of lead. Also, getting run over by a tank while prone just isn't fun. Then again, it's pretty funny... The insta-gib guns I think are fine at first, when used in larger games by players who've never actually played. It lets them get a feel for controls and such. After two games, though, it should be traded out for something else, so players can actually gain some skill. After that, a player should practice with their new chosen weapon long enough to play without needing an insta-gib gun.
 
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Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 26, 2005 - 06:54 PM
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Well in terms of CS:S, I prefer the pump-shottie over the n00bstick. Mainly because the n00bstick sucks. (<-period) Plus I've never killed somebody 10 meters away with one shot of the auto-shotty. The pump-shotty does lots more damage, but it's completely random (so is every other weapon in CS:S). So I prefer using the pump and getting a lucky one-shot kill...

In BF2 it's alot less random. Although I prefer the pump-shotty to the saiga-12k. I haven't unlocked the auto-shotties yet, but I've been killed by them ALOT. But I don't call those people n00bs or anything because it still takes skill to get up close without being pumped full of lead from an assault rifle or such.

On another topic (still BF2), the n00b tube is anoying. I don't call people n00bs, however, I simply start using the n00b tube on them until they beg me to stop Twisted Evil
 
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BanditOffline
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Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 26, 2005 - 07:20 PM
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whoa there Ack you are seriously missing some viatal information.

1. The internet is no different than playing side by side other than ping times. However I think you are hitting on something. Playing people you don't know vs playing with your core group (friends,club,clan) or people are you trying to get to play is different. When you are playing people you don't know, flame on, warp 10 captain, don't hold back. No reason to.
2. Your problem with people going on and on. I don't know you but I imagine you loosing for whatever reason and getting 20 mins of smack talk is pay back for how you win or how you play. People don't naturally care at 20 min. rant levels unless there is some sort of instigation. So if you don't like that take a serious look at yourself.
3. Quitting: Quitting is the ultimate lameness when it comes to gaming. It is a final resort that means no one will ever get any more chances at fun in that setting again. A contentious gamer is aware of others tolerances of 1)smack talk 2)repeated defeat 3)bragging. But the true great gamers are capable of pushing right up to that limit with apparent violent disregard, all the while secretly riding the wave, baiting the victims on never quite breaking the barrier of tolerance and forcing quitage.


Now back to our original discussion. Crouching is a hybrid form of prone and standing. SO I launch into my proof that prone is ghey.

1. Fact: Spawn camping = teh ghey
2. It doesn't matter if you are getting spawn camped or just camped it is still frustrating to die repeatedly in the same fasion from someone you know is not changing position or style. Fact: Spawn = 0

3.
Spawn camping - Spawn = teh ghey - Spawn
camping = teh ghey

4.
Prone is laying down and not moving. You can move slowly but not enough to be significant in this equation. That is to say as movement aproaches 0 the closer you are to not chaning your location and thus camping a spot.

prone = not moving
camping = not moving + killing
prone = camping - killing

5.
prone < camping
prone = camping - killing
camping = teh ghey
killing = teh: Killing is teh point to teh game and thus is equivalent to teh point.
prone = teh ghey - killing
prone = ghey

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Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 27, 2005 - 03:07 AM
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it all depends on what level of play you are looking at. Playing in a tournament and playing with friends is a little different.
 
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Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 27, 2005 - 12:05 PM
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tsruiner see my rule 1.

Normally you don't know everyone in a tournament thus it would apply. Usually firends don't have tournaments with just each other because they know who will win.

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Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 27, 2005 - 05:03 PM
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Actually, my response to winning in a fighting game is usually just to sit quiet and shrug. I've also been stuck playing fighting games for hours after getting caught in a loser-passes-the-controller game, to the point that eventually I just let somebody else go because I get bored. And Bandit, we have met, you're rather obnoxious yourself. Still a damn good Tribes player, though. Much respect.

As for quitting, I didn't mean quit entirely. I meant quit playing with that person for a while. I have quit playing very few games, one of which was CS: Source. Played in once. Got a headshot from 10m with the pump shotty. Quit immediately.

Also, I agree with your rules. Specifically 1 and 3. I despise spawn camping, though I also realize that in some games, it's almost all you can do. Battlefield is really bad about spawn camping, but because of the way the game is set up, it practically invites it.

Anyway...yes, spawn camping sucks. Prone does not suck because prone has both positive and negative issues. Crouching does not always suck because it can be used for an effective run and gun strategy, though crouching while camping is very much crap. Sniping while parachuting...cool.
 
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Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 27, 2005 - 05:35 PM
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In fighting games I prefer reversing the rule. Looser stays. In practice this actually works out better because the looser needs more practice anyway. Normally this causes the best players to give advise to the looser so he will win and they will get another shot quicker. (in actuality it doesn't get them to play any quicker but the illusion is still there)

Meeting someone and knowing them are 2 different things in my mind, but that is for another time. I know I am the master of obnoxious. I atempt to raise it to an art form, I'm constantly trying to grate people for a number of effects while not pushing them to the point of quiting. I find people that are irritated or thinking up come backs are easier targets. I also find talking large enough and hitting hard enough makes people hesitate when they otherwise should not. This is also an advantage for me. Additionally I find people enjoy smak talk, it is a seperate game outside the game. The trick though is to keep them quipping back at you, when they stop or the don't laugh it is time to start mocking yourself and letting them win.

Now back to you.... I know this may be hard to belive and I don't know if it even applies to you but... Victims(the people you beat and rant at you when they win) may be getting a vibe off you in your body language and style of beating them. This may be the vibe that is causing them to go off the deep end. If you suspect I may be right I suggest a little experiment. One gaming session completely change the way you would normaly act. If you wind up with a different reaction from them when they finally win you have found the Bandit tool. You now have another level of game play. Now you can play the manipulate your opponents mind game. Trust me it is grand fun.

I don't agree with my above proof but I just thought it would be fun to abuse math proof logic in this fasion. I whole heartedly agree with Homer Simpson when it comes to proofs,"Facts, smacts. You can use those to proove anything remotely true."

I honestly feel "there is a time and place for everything, and that place is called college". Chef from Southpark. Spawn Camping can be done for fun and profit in the right situations. For instance say you are getting totaly dominated by someone and just happen to get lost on the map and wind up over their spawn. It sure can relive some stress to pop him as he spawns a couple or twenty times.

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Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 27, 2005 - 11:12 PM
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      Bandit wrote:
I'm constantly trying to grate people for a number of effects while not pushing them to the point of quitting.


You weren't always this...."refined"....

Classes taught by Bandit:
Age of Kings - How to be a "good" ally....unless you're in danger.

Sacrifice (at Strangel's going-away lan) - how to win a game in under a minute and make everyone not want to play anymore.

....good times!

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BanditOffline
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Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 28, 2005 - 03:36 AM
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By no means was I that refiend and I would say I'm still not that refined. I try but sometimes you just don't feel like trying anymore and you feel like letting the hate flow.

I remember the game where T-Bird, Vector, Sithlord, Mauler, Shaft, and X all got pissed at me. 3 of whom left the building they were soo pissed that I backstabed them all in turn. My good buddy T-Bird was the 2nd in the line of back stabbing and was probably the one I stabbed the hardest.
Actual quotes from the match.
T-Bird: Wanna ally?
Bandit: Ok
bandit has allied with T-bird
T-bird has allied with bandit
Bandit to Lynx: Don't kill me I can donate to you and help you win.
Lynx: I don't need your resources. Kill T-Bird.
Bandit: OK hold on.
T-Bird: what are all those troops doing in my base.
Bandit: Lynx is about to attack I'm here to defend.
T-Bird: Lynx is on the other side of you how could he attack?
Bandit: I'm sorry Its you or me.
bandit declaired war on T-Bird
T-bird, "What the ..... "
Bandit: Hey where did T-Bird go?
Shaft: I think he left.

But I don't quite remember the Strangel's going-away lan. Refresh my memory. I like to re live these acts of villany in my mind from time to time. But seriously that backstab to T was the single dirtiest thing I ever did. In my defence it was a King of the Net tournament but it was still dirty as hell. It took me 2 quarters to convince ANYONE to ally with me in ANY game after that.

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Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 28, 2005 - 04:10 AM
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Heheheh. I've done my share of backstabbing.

Some of my favorite quotes:

"Where the hell are my battlecruisers!!!???"
"Hey! Half the map just went black!!"
"What's with those krogoths in my base??! OMG YOU BASTARD!!!"


Probably a bunch more but that's all I can remember for now. It took me several years to get people to ally with me again Sad
 
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