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Post subject:   PostPosted: Nov 28, 2005 - 05:06 AM
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I could say something here like 'roflomgwtfbbq' but I'll leave that out in favor of actually writing out what I want to say:

I just fell of my chair laughing. Excellent post, sir. *salutes*

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Post subject:   PostPosted: Nov 29, 2005 - 05:14 AM
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This is a link to a L337 translator I found.
3|\|J0Y |317(|-|35
http://newgrounds.com/portal/view/279548

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Post subject:   PostPosted: Nov 29, 2005 - 01:27 PM
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I think we can all appreciate Bandit's knowledge on the subject of 1337, or 133+ as he put it. And thanks to Ehgret for the L337 translator. Stay black, my brother.

However, this brings about an interesting idea. We've seen how the realism of games has increased over time, and how the tactics, annoying or otherwise, have changed. More and more games these days are using bullet time. Is this a plus or a negative? And what about the old days when a game moving slowly was a bad thing? Is bullet time really an increase in game play, or a decrease in the skills of the average gamer? After all, if you have to slow down everything just to shoot it, you might not be that good. Discuss.

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Post subject:   PostPosted: Nov 29, 2005 - 03:31 PM
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I have 2 opinions on the subject of bullet time and both could be blamed on being an old codger of a gamer.
1. Bullet Time is just another marketing idea that was good in one game but shouldn't be put in every game just so you have another feature on your box cover. I mean come on what the hell is it doing in Rise of Nations under the guise of Cannon Time?
2. As I age my reaction times drop(theoretically) and I become less of a twitch gamer and more of a methodical force. All the genras have settings that let the server control the game speed. Bullet Time is basically a suspention of the rule at will by a player. As long as this rule change is temporary and limited by another rule I'm fine with it.

What I really want to see is the next level. I want to Speed up time temporarily, and even crazier I want my speed up or slow down to be only in my local area. That way when 2 players are using counter powers you get strange fields of time speeding up and slowing down. Maybe the ultimate in crowbar deaths is for me to catch you in mid jump and hit the top of you with a slow field and the bottom with a fast one. This stirs up memories of the Quake mod Superheros. I want a good Superhero game in first person shooter style where everyone is a superhero.

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Post subject:   PostPosted: Nov 29, 2005 - 05:32 PM
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Bullet Time is the new Lens Flare - everyone's gotta have it now. Granted, it usually fits (though Cannon Time?? I remember hearing that before, but I've never used it...), starting with Max Payne all the way through FEAR.

Then again, many current games are really frustrating to me nowadays - like Far Cry - where I prolly wouldn't have completed the volcano level if it didn't lag out my computer something fierce....and I had to simply cheat to pass the final map...I tried the legit way probably 50 times and couldn't even pass the first encounter on that stage.

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Post subject:   PostPosted: Nov 30, 2005 - 02:39 PM
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... I tend to throw my controller or keyboard up against the pillow on the wall (because I am an economical gamer and don't need to break things in rage) when confronted with 'bullet time,' 'super jump action combos' and other complicated things in a game. If I can't get to this stuff via kickin' ass in normal methodry then I don't want the game to force me to have to use it.

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Post subject:   PostPosted: Nov 30, 2005 - 09:42 PM
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So it appears that we're all good on Bullet time as long as it fits. I'd never even heard of cannon time... and now that I have... well... I'm disgusted. Regardless, I do believe that it has it's uses. You've seen it in F.E.A.R. and it was about as beautiful as UG's sister, though with a tad bit more gore. Let's see if he kills me for that one.

Unless someone else wishes to attack Bullet Time, we shall move on. We've talked a great deal about past and current gaming tactics and annoyances, and as I now move to find other ideal ways of spending my time in the philosophy of gaming, I must ask a crucial question. As members of the gaming community, what do you think will come next, and how do you plan on exploiting it? The future is open, so what do you want it to be?

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Post subject:   PostPosted: Dec 01, 2005 - 02:42 AM
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Well, it's pretty obvious I plan to be in on the thick of things, so here's my two cents that I actually am going to implement in "the game" by "the company." Which is oddly close to being a tangible reality.

When I play a game, I want it to be simple. I want cool things to happen just via a normal sequence of events, and even cooler things to happen sometimes if I implement good strategy or some other good thing in addition to normal sequences of events.

Therefore.

I don't want to have to give units specific commands like 'garrison' or 'dig trenches and plant yourselves in them' or 'buy milk at the store while you're out.' The day that I send a unit into enemy territory and they start skirting the trees trying very hard not to be seen without me telling them to... I guess basically I want better AI of your own squad in RTS's and in other games I want to be able to play the game my way and have the strategy be viable.

Perhaps this is why WoW turned me off...

Enough of my ramblings. On to the next avid poster!

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Post subject:   PostPosted: Dec 01, 2005 - 02:01 PM
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Being and RTS guy this is what I have always wanted and will probably continue to go wanting....
An RTS game should incorporate MMPORG ideas. Permanancy, large community, and massive warfare. I would want it in a fantasy setting but would be satisfied with any. Basicly the game would start as a RPG with your avatar(your caracter) your avatar is not you you are the person sitting in the chair controling him and he is the avatar in another 'real' dimention. You can choose to make him from the standard templates or you can customize him from stratch or from a template. The template would include, Stats, Starting Skills, Feats, Spells, and Styles. Stats, Starting Skills, Feats and Spells are simply D20 DnD sorts of things. Samples of a Style would be Tower Guard, which would have Actions. An Action would be how the character moves his body. This Action would result in simply his body moving which could result in an item being contstructed, a sword swining down and back up, a shield moving to block a sword(if none is there the shield arm doesn't move). Spells would also be tied to what you have on you and your Action. You can't cast a fireball without gesturing. Action discovery could occur automatically via standard progression in your training by another character or NPC OR you can edit and create them yourself. Maybe you want a Ice Ball well in that case you have to discover to invert the fire gestures of the fireball while still using the ball gestures.

Next you can choose to collect more Avatars to build your army. You could establish a church to yourself, or you could form a raiding band that follows you. But the point is you are a god to these Avatars. You can control them directly or you can choose to give thim orders, goals, and rewards. All of this cost god mana or somthing. The more powerful worshipers, the more they do for you, the more you have the more mana you have but you influence can only be felt through your followers. You can't cast fireball only your follower can.

Each god also has the ability to meet other gods because they can 'see' each other foating about over the minions. Through this interface you can form alliances with other gods(players) and have your minions form guilds, churches, secret societies whatever you want to call them. This relationship doesn't offer anything to the gods other than communication because they still want to gain worshipers. I suppose you could teach another god's avatar how to cast iceball but I suppose you would want somthing in return. Ultimately the goal is whatever you want it to be. Kill other gods? Build giant cities? Level up your minions? Whatever you want. Just be aware, the world is large and not fair.

One other thing when avatars die, their souls wind up in your well of souls. From this well you can re-incarnate them, or raise them from the dead. reincarnation starts a new avatar with a preset progression that is identical to the sould reincarnated but they are level 1. Raising from the dead destroys part of the soul, Abilities lowered, skills forgoton, actions corrupted.

Anyway just my idea.

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Post subject:   PostPosted: Dec 01, 2005 - 03:20 PM
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Yeah, but anybody who doesn't buy the game almost immediately would be seriously underpowered. One Level 1 against a troop of five Level 30s just wouldn't work. There would need to be some kind of power balance.

Personally, I would like to see more of the "Go anywhere, do anything" type gameplay of games like Morrowind. I want a huge world to do it in, too, because I like to just wander around in games. And I want every object I find to be a valid weapon. Picking up paintcans and launching them at people in Half Life 2 was great, but it didn't do nearly enough damage, and I wanted to be able to throw spoons and things like that. Basically I want a huge, fully interactive world in which any sort of object can be used as a weapon. And I want to be able to do anything in these worlds...

...Ultima Online, Morrowind, and Half Life 2 should all have sex, because this game sounds like it would be there love child.
 
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Post subject:   PostPosted: Dec 01, 2005 - 04:56 PM
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      lordbyronIII wrote:
I don't want to have to give units specific commands like 'garrison' or 'dig trenches and plant yourselves in them' or 'buy milk at the store while you're out.' The day that I send a unit into enemy territory and they start skirting the trees trying very hard not to be seen without me telling them to...


So here's my question - what if you WANT a unit to do something really stupid such as running through an open field so as to - for example - lure the enemy host nearer to the trees next to the field....from which the artillery will then open fire and decimate the enemy?

Some games automatically begin sandbagging troops if they've been stationary long enough - such as Kohan. Actually, check out Kohan 2. You might like it - that is a seriously underappreciated RTS series. I don't think we'll ever see a Kohan 3 either Sad


Bandit: It's not exactly what you want, but it's a start - check out the Romance of the 3 Kingdoms series on the PS2 (parts VII through X are on that system). You can start out as a lowly wanderer, and by making friends, recruiting generals, staging an uprising, and waging (turn-based) war, you can eventually become ruler of all China...and if not you, your children (or designated heirs) can.

Also worth checking out, Europa Universalis 2 and Crusader Kings for PC...but those are even more hands-off in the combat department.

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Post subject:   PostPosted: Dec 12, 2005 - 04:54 PM
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bump

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Post subject:   PostPosted: Dec 12, 2005 - 05:18 PM
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Well, one fun MMOFPS is Shattered Galaxy. You create a character and have stats and such. And then you recruit units into your army. Your skills determine what types of units you can use and how many you can use at once. The individual units also level up which allow you to equip them with better equipment. All in all, it's an awesome game. Some battles having 300+ units battling away for control of territory.

Also, I wouldn't like rts games making my units do stuff automatically. I'm pretty good at microing and I think that is part of the skill. I DO like my units to not do stupid stuff, like come out of hiding and attack a tank with an m16 or something.

And artillery annoys me sometimes. I wish there was an option in Battlefield 2 & BF2:SF to turn off commander mode. Having commanders pretty much makes sneaking around impossible, until you take out their equipment and such. (But then they just have to drop a supply crate next to their arty/radar, etc to repair it. It should at least require an engineer to repair...) Also, the arty makes it impossible to camp outside Sad
 
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Post subject:   PostPosted: Dec 24, 2005 - 11:58 PM
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perhaps I should've made this a bit clearer:

my two favorite things in a game are customization and ... well, cool stuff. I want to see characters on-screen do things I can't do in reality, at least not feasibly.

So, what I'm really after is a customizable option that lets me say 'ok, I want to micro-manage units' or 'let my units make decisions for themselves for now' -- but to actually make the second option viable.

Also... I really want Makai Kingdom again. But a better game. it had everything customizable just like I wanted it... *sniff* but it's too easy. Like FFTactics Advance, horrendously fun at the outset and then... flat.

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Post subject:   PostPosted: Jan 16, 2006 - 05:19 PM
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Alright then, my fellow space cadets. It's the next semester, so we may as well reincarnate this dead beast of a post with some fluid motions of the hand. So, let's see. We've done quite a bit. But what we havn't done is a discussional segmentation of the past, current, and future AI systems.

So with that in mind, our historically accurate gamers may now fill us in on the past of the AI System. PacMan was on a track. How has that progressed? The current pinacle of AI, I believe, is F.E.A.R., but how close is it to the real thing?

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Post subject:   PostPosted: Jan 17, 2006 - 06:40 PM
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it's not AI at all. Artificial Intelegence in it's current form is acutally Aparent Intelegence. The AI won't be real untill it 'learns' as you play and won't be fair until it uses the same interface you use to play the game. AI requires it to be self aware, preserving, and understand what it is doing and why. Right now and in the past the AI is just a binary tree of reactions to certain situations or worse just a state machine. The only thing that has changed is the character's can do more (squat, throw grenades, alternate fire, ect)and the AI's have bigger binary trees.

AI is a misnomer.

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Post subject:   PostPosted: Jan 18, 2006 - 04:46 AM
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Ah yes. Bandit, always with his quick responces and utmost intelligence. Now tell me, Bandit. How close is current AI to humanity? Do many players not do the same thing over and over? Does one not rocket jump to climb a wall? Does one not camp behind a box to protect his or her flag? Is the average player nothing more than a bot, following a go here, do this command? I know there are exceptions who do exceptional things, but your average shmoe vs. current AI systems? What's the difference?

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Post subject:   PostPosted: Jan 18, 2006 - 01:42 PM
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Now you are entering the realm of what is intelegence. Let me say this you are asking, "If I can't tell the difference between a bot and a person through the game play, is the bot AI?" I would argue it is a good facimile but not AI. Now my AI professor would have said it is a kind of AI just not the AI. Lets view the AI and the Human players as 2 communities. The AI starts out knowing a set of solutions to the game (crouch, go to box, shoot enemy, throw grenade) and the humans starts only with their familiarity with the genra if any. The humans then play AI and each other trying different paths, like a swarm search on a large finite problem area. There is a time period where the game is new and certain solutions aren't found due to localize minima. Like in SC early on people loved building a spawning pool before building drones and rushing with zerglings. This changed when people found other solutions that were better but it took a while. During this time frame the game is in my opinion the most fun. The humans then eventually exhaust the search space of solutions, ie. everything has been tried and tested vs everything else. Then the humans turn to trimming out the unecessary steps in the solution and the speed at which they apply the solution. Only at that point to they become AI like. That is when the HARD CORE players have taken over the game and it's community of players. That is the point where I say lets go find a new game I don't want to be an AI simulator.

In the old days AI's were state machines. This is basicly a roach. It has no memory of where it was one cycle(tic, second, smallest unit of time) ago but it has a single reaction to a each stimuli for the state it is in. With this you can simulate some level of intelegence. Example: Pac Man. When he is powered up the ghosts run away, when he's not they move toward him. When they get to a branch in the maze they choose a path at random. To make the game harder or easier they can change the speed of the ghosts or the delay in state change when PacMan powers up or powers down. I would argue that the best AI's now are still just state machines. Eventually someone will use swarm AI's or other learning AI's in games because they will be easier to make. Instead of learning a game and building 40 AI's you could build one learning swarm and take 40 members of it's population to make an AI. But in the end humans have the capability as an individual to use swarm tactics mentally, plus the ability to use each other as part of the swarm. The next step in AI is to use more complicated ways to automate AI statemachine creation, the next is to connect those swarm AI's via internet and let them learn after the game has been distributed. SO as the community becomes better at the game so does the AI's.

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Post subject:   PostPosted: Jan 19, 2006 - 01:28 PM
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does no one have a different opinion? or does no one care about AI?

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Post subject:   PostPosted: Jan 19, 2006 - 04:45 PM
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i was thinking most AI is semi correct... via this:


dont know if the makes sense or not...
say your playin a FPS...

you see an enemy and shoot him he dies, now if you miss then the AI should teach him from that experience and he should dodge accordingly, unfortunately you kill him, with every bot a new"AI" should exist like a real person... they shouldnt learn from the experiences of the previous bots on different levels; just from their surroundings(that specific level, and all the ffects of maybe the group of bots they are with), now if their was an ultimate godlike bot, or commander if you will, then the AI should carry over from level to level until that godbot is dead or extinct, etc.

one bot shouldnt learn from the mistakes of an earlier bot, does that make sense or am i just full of ramblings?.... i vote for the later.

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