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T-BirDOffline
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Post subject:   PostPosted: Jan 19, 2006 - 05:44 PM
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      Bandit wrote:
...is acutally Aparent Intelegence.


I find this to be ironically appropriate Mr. Green

Anyway, jabs aside, while I've not played it, the AI in Brothers in Arms: Earned in Blood is supposed to dynamically react to the situation by advancing, retreating, flanking, and using covering fire - can anybody confirm this?

I also imagine the AI of Stalker is what's keeping that game so delayed - they're trying to create a living world where events happen whether you're around or not (just imagine the processing power that would take!).

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BanditOffline
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Post subject:   PostPosted: Jan 19, 2006 - 06:30 PM
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Both are just state machines but are more and more complicated state machines. When each soldier starts modifiying his pre-set reactions in game then he is a real AI. True AI can come up with it's own answers even if they weren't programmed with those in the beggining. IE users figured out how to side jump in Quake, and bunny hop in Half Life. The AI never figured this out it was bound to it's original script. I suspect this is the same for BIA:EIB only they are more complicated scripts.

I've never seen software (game or not) sucessfully pull off a simulation of a living environment that didn't eventually reach a final state. IE all the wolves eat all the deer and then starve to death leaving the world empty. Or Weather simulators end up with the entire earth in a perpetual hurricane like Jupiter, or perpetual fog. The issue is these simulations have yet to come up with a source of 'chaos'. That can be said AI's can't make a leap of logic, simulations can't adjust to a stable state of flux. So I highly doubt Stalker will be able to pull it off correctly. But I applaud their atempt as is furthers the public knowledge on how to do it or not as the case may be.

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Post subject:   PostPosted: Jan 19, 2006 - 08:37 PM
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i saw a demo of s.t.a.l.k.e.r. on toms about a year ago and the physics were fucking incredible. but they were just playing with the engine demoing physics so i cant confim the AI part. i know i was salivated to play it with i saw the demo, and had forgot about ti because its been so long since i heard anything about it.

http://www.stalker-game.com/

here the site if anyone is interested.

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Goji_of_the_SquirrelOffline
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Post subject:   PostPosted: Jan 20, 2006 - 07:19 PM
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So it seems that AI cannot reach a truly I state until the A becomes less A. So how does the difficulty setting change this scripting? Is it like setting a layer of bricks upon one already built, making the scripting more complex? Or is new scripting used entirely? What about setting up some sort of motion-capture studio, where actual techniques used are copied and scripted straight to the bots themselves? Is that even a plausable idea? After a few more comments, we shall move on to weather effects and how they affect the players with their infectious nature.

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BanditOffline
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Post subject:   PostPosted: Jan 20, 2006 - 07:34 PM
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Difficulty in different games are handled in a few ways.
1. Making more complex scripts.
2. Damaging complex scripts to have opposite from wise paths.
3. AI Cheating, Auto Aim's, knowledge of where you or your units are even though they can't see you, knowledge of the randomly generated map prior to explorations. This is my point of the AI has to have the same interface as you. They don't have to sit at a keyboard and mouse, but they should be kept from issuing an order to unit A 10 screens away .1 seconds after issuing an order to unit Z.
4. AI's are given better resources, health or powerups than you.

Players want to turn up the intelegence of the AI, but all they can do is increase the cheating or decrease the stupidity.

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Goji_of_the_SquirrelOffline
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Post subject:   PostPosted: Jan 22, 2006 - 04:51 PM
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So one may assume that this is a direct correlation to fighting games becoming less tactical and more "OMGZ teh b0ss must use teh h4X!"? Then again, is that new? I think all of us have seen Sagat in Street Fighter II Turbo Championship Ultra Force X... or, um, however many other words they can paste on the end of their title. Speaking of fighting games, what's the deal? When it comes down to the line, what kind of character is the best? Fast and Puny, Medium and Mediocre, or Slow and Steady? As for me, Slow and Steady wins the race. Now, what're your takes on this? Bandit? Anyone else? Anyone? Beuler?

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T-BirDOffline
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Post subject:   PostPosted: Jan 23, 2006 - 01:16 AM
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I'm almost always one of the female characters in fighting games.....and not just for the eye candy - I just prefer the faster style of play.

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jokeyxeroOffline
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Post subject:   PostPosted: Jan 23, 2006 - 01:22 PM
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give me speed over strength most any day

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Post subject:   PostPosted: Jan 23, 2006 - 02:32 PM
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Typically, I go for decent speed more, or general offensive capability. Defense isn't as important, specifically the ability to counter, as long as I can hit you hard and fast. But for some games, I just gotta say screw it and go for the WTF factor. Hence why I started playing Robo-Ky in Guilty Gear...so I can hit you with a flying tricycle. Oh yes.
 
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Post subject:   PostPosted: Jan 24, 2006 - 10:22 PM
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So which then takes the most skill to play? Each character has good combos that can be executed at a certain time which will give a certain effect. Each character has a relatively fast and slow move. Each character is completely different.

I believe in the power of the mountain, the slow and steady beast that must be properly timed. In fact, timing is what all fighting games are about. With a fast character, your mistakes are easily fixed, as attacking too soon is rectified by another fast attack a mere wisp of a second later. Medium characters tend to suffer at the hands of fast characters, but excel vs. slow characters. Slow characters are powned the instant a person makes a mistake. Of course, this is all assuming your opponent knows what they are doing.

Now, there are certain odd characters, such as Robo-Ky, Voldo, or Christopher, the Teddy Bear Furry (If you don't know, don't ask until later). But these can all fall into the fast, medium, and slow categories. Thus, Nightmare was the best character in Soul Calibur.

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T-BirDOffline
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Post subject:   PostPosted: Jan 24, 2006 - 11:11 PM
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I also believe that the slow characters require the most skill. Anybody who can beat a good Chun Li player with Zangief has my respect. If I'm playing a serious Soul Calibur game, Taki it is for me. King of Fighters? - Well...you can't beat the bounce ;p (Mai Shiranui). - though Athena is fun as an alternate.

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Post subject:   PostPosted: Jan 26, 2006 - 03:45 PM
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But a slow character can be cheap too. Take Potemkin in Guilty Gear. Easily the slowest character in the game, but press forward punch four times, and the opponent is totally destroyed. I can't stand playing him, but I've beaten the mess out of characters like Jam simply by doing that. Cheap, yes, but effective.

I think, overall, a slow character is no different in gameplay, it just comes down to timing it. But since they're about big damage, they can screw up a little, they can take the punishment and still dish it out for a while. I've seen vicious combos in Virtua Fighter with Wolf that just required a keen eye for countering a faster opponent. I've seen a Hulk player crush Chun Li in Marvel vs. Capcom. I've known a guy who's character in Soul Calibur was Astaroth, and even seen Nightmare own Taki, because Gouji has done it...and no, he wasn't playing T-BirD.

Also...I've never met anybody who claimed to use Zangief. Weird, huh?
 
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Post subject:   PostPosted: Jan 27, 2006 - 11:16 PM
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So, as agreed, it's all about one's timing.

Now, as it was mentioned before, I'd like us to return to weather effects. Which are the best? Which are the worst? Have any seriously damaged your game play? Do you have any tips to get past effects in games in which the normal weather is simply unbearable?

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Post subject:   PostPosted: Aug 01, 2006 - 01:48 PM
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Well yesterday in WoW I wandered into Scarlet Monestary and ran into in-game fog. It was more irritating than fun, because I couldn't turn the weather up past medium, and with it on medium I still couldn't see enemies without auto-target's big red circles showing up from the party Hunter (who btw was an idiot).

... Honestly, I can't think of a counterpoint to this. I can't remember any games where I liked the weather besides maybe Blood, and that technically wasn't ambient weather, it was just fake fog up in the sky in one level.

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Post subject:   PostPosted: Aug 01, 2006 - 08:23 PM
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The problem with weather in alot of multiplayer games: It can be turned off by turning settings down, etc. This is retarded as it gives people a choice beteween good renders or having a gameplay advantage.


In single player games I find weather can sometimes contribute to the mood quite well. I just finished Dreamfall and the weather effects contributed alot. In Casablanca the bright sunlight reflected off of everything really contrasted with Newport and the dreary rain, etc..
 
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jokeyxeroOffline
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Post subject:   PostPosted: Aug 02, 2006 - 12:40 AM
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Reminds me of HDR in Counter-Strike.. Oh look, I can turn it off and suddenly gain a visual advantage over my oppenent.

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Post subject:   PostPosted: Aug 02, 2006 - 01:34 AM
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Give me FPS over pretty any day of the week in a multiplayer game. Ive played with software rendering in UT to get a boosted 10 fps. Then again I did it on a modern rig simply to get a 300+ fps. What Lias and I were bored.
 
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Post subject:   PostPosted: Aug 02, 2006 - 03:18 AM
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Well HDR in Source is retarded. It's extremely slow for HDR and it doesn't even look right. In fact, recent games look too "fuzzy" with all the HDR stuff. They always overemphasize the HDR effect. Almost like they are screaming: "OMG LOOK AT TEH PRETTAY HDR LOOK WAT I CAN DO LOL I AM L33T PROGRAMMER I NEED to GET LAID..."

Not that I haven't implemented HDR in any of my renderers. But I keep it toned down ALOT. You have to really look for it to notice it...
 
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Post subject:   PostPosted: Aug 02, 2006 - 03:38 AM
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You still need to get laid though.

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Post subject:   PostPosted: Aug 02, 2006 - 12:17 PM
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heheheh, Vandyl...

*ahem* So, we're agreed that weather's fun when it's ambient and irritating when turning it off gives you a visual advantage over your opponent.

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