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kurtmax_0 |
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Competition Guide
 Posted: Apr 09, 2008 - 12:07 PM
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Color-Swapped Ninja
Joined: Oct 23, 2005
Posts: 1083
Status: Offline
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| Well tbh. I wouldn't mind if I were playing an RTS and parts of the game were being shown on a large screen. Even if my opponents could see it. It's a game after-all.... |
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katona |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 10, 2008 - 04:10 AM
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Member
Joined: Apr 10, 2008
Posts: 28
Status: Offline
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Thomas Kilgore here, the other Starcraft guy.
Some further clarifications on the rules.
DISALLOWED:
- Cargo glitch
- Flying drones and templars
- Terran sliding buildings
- A bug which allows your non-worker ground units to remain stacked while moving/attacking
- Allied mines
allowed:
- Observer over turret
- Units pressed through
- Drops to defuse mines
- Mineral walk
- Hold lurker
- Larvae Move
- manner pylon
- wall-in |
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Bandit |
| Location: Madison Alabama |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 10, 2008 - 08:00 AM
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G0dlike
Joined: Feb 03, 2004
Posts: 855
Location: Madison Alabama
Status: Offline
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| I assume the one running this tournament will not be playing in it, as these rules are very specific and tailored to one style of play. |
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Ack |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 10, 2008 - 08:19 AM
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Moderator
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Posts: 682
Status: Offline
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| I'm guessing most of what isn't allowed are glitches and bugs, right? |
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lucre |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 11, 2008 - 12:15 AM
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no0b
Joined: Mar 29, 2008
Posts: 14
Status: Offline
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Most disallowed is bugs; some is exploits.
Same for allowed, actually.
These are the rules a lot of official tournaments use, generally to keep game-breaking exploits out while still allowing some use of discovered holes in the game mechanics. |
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katona |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 11, 2008 - 05:06 AM
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Member
Joined: Apr 10, 2008
Posts: 28
Status: Offline
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Bandit wrote:
I assume the one running this tournament will not be playing in it, as these rules are very specific and tailored to one style of play.
I don't see any specific style of play that these rules are tailored towards. These are based on the rules of tournaments like the ones held in korea or others such as ICCUP or TSL.
Ack wrote:
I'm guessing most of what isn't allowed are glitches and bugs, right?
Yeah, pretty much. Some of those have been partially fixed by blizzard patches but they still pop up from time to time.
kurtmax_0 wrote:
Well tbh. I wouldn't mind if I were playing an RTS and parts of the game were being shown on a large screen. Even if my opponents could see it. It's a game after-all....
That removes the need for scouting, which a rather important element of the skill involved. Not to mention that things like proxy builds or hidden tech is taken out of the game. |
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Bandit |
| Location: Madison Alabama |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 11, 2008 - 11:17 AM
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G0dlike
Joined: Feb 03, 2004
Posts: 855
Location: Madison Alabama
Status: Offline
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Well your maps have removed much of the resource management, which is a rather important element of the skill involved. I suppose you play at max speed as well. It is a particular style of play.
All that aside, it isn't normal for the person running the tournament to be playing in the tournament. Mainly due to the fact the person running it is the judge and jury.[/quote] |
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lucre |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 11, 2008 - 01:17 PM
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no0b
Joined: Mar 29, 2008
Posts: 14
Status: Offline
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I will be running the tournament, and I will not be participating, unless we can find someone who doesn't want to play and is willing to preside (I would love to play in the tournament). Katona is not going to be judging the matches if he is playing, I assure you of that.
Bandit, if you don't mind me asking, what are you comparing our style to? I'd like to understand more about how you normally play Starcraft before attempting to respond. |
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Bandit |
| Location: Madison Alabama |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 11, 2008 - 01:45 PM
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G0dlike
Joined: Feb 03, 2004
Posts: 855
Location: Madison Alabama
Status: Offline
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I'm one of the many people who have bowed out of BattleNet and the like. Yes there are many people who play "your way". But I do my best to make it known the current BattleNet way is not the only way. So that being said....
[BANDIT RANT ON]
Real Time Strategy's name intends to mean just that. Real Time not Maxed out beyond normal time. You see I have a problem with a community who wants to short circuit the game's intent. The game was intended to be played on a neutral speed. Secondly the game was intended to have finite not infinite or near infinite resources. I find many "tournament" maps have been modified to have dramatically more resources at one location that was intended.
Now what these things do to the game, is remove many Strategies that would otherwise completely viable and turn the game into a rush fest. And by rush I don't mean just attacking as fast as possible. So I take umbrage at your comment to kurtmax about taking away parts of a game, when this style of tournament takes away much more. Strategy vs Tactics, do you know the difference? Tactics are small maneuvers of individual units alone or in groups. Strategy is a style a method of running an overall battle or war. So by only allowing a single Strategy but many Tactics you have changed the nature of the entire game.
All of this adds up to a Faster Than Normal Tactical game not an RTS.
[BANDIT RANT OFF]
It is a great idea of outside organizations running tournaments at Tiger LAN. I'm glad you thought of this and I hope it happens more. Also, I do not want to run anyone off, even if they want to play games other than the way we enjoy. However, I do not want to see a tournament create issues (judges playing in the tournament). |
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Bandit |
| Location: Madison Alabama |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 11, 2008 - 02:01 PM
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G0dlike
Joined: Feb 03, 2004
Posts: 855
Location: Madison Alabama
Status: Offline
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| If you can't find anyone to run the tournament for you, I can do so. That way you can play. |
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lucre |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 11, 2008 - 02:27 PM
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no0b
Joined: Mar 29, 2008
Posts: 14
Status: Offline
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Bandit--I'm not sure where to begin in responding to your worries. You seem to have made several assumptions about ASL, and our tournament, which are simply not true. Many of us do play on battle.net regularly, but that in itself doesn't merit such condemnation. We do tend to play on fastest, but if you wish to play on normal speed (and can find an opponent who agrees with you), go right ahead.
The core of your arguments, however, seems to be against "money maps" such as Big Game Hunters or Zero Clutter. I assure you (if you don't believe me, check out the map pack) that none of our maps has such an unwieldly stack of resources in one spot. In fact, the maps we are playing emphasize the need to expand early and often, and create forces in accord with such expansions.
All of us have experienced the dismay of a rush fest on a money map, but that is not what we intend for this tournament. Rushes are a viable option, yes, but so are building a large army and small force harassment, as in all warring situations.
We do know about tactics and strategy, Bandit. The Starcraft community refers to them as "micro" and "macro," but generally the same meaning is applied. We, and the maps we've provided, do not advocate a single strategy--there are many possible ways to begin a game and end one, just as there are many ways for individual units to be used in a single tactical encounter.
I apologize that you had such bad experiences on battle.net, but there are many facets of the community which can't be experienced on battle.net alone, and which it seems you haven't experienced. ASL, hopefully, will be one of the more enjoyable facets of the community. |
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lucre |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 11, 2008 - 02:31 PM
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no0b
Joined: Mar 29, 2008
Posts: 14
Status: Offline
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P.S.
Thanks for the offer to run the tournament, but I do feel a bit of an obligation as the one who proposed it in the first place. Let's see if I can't entice you in a couple of games either over bnet tonight or sometime tomorrow morning that you may just have fun competing in the tournament yourself. |
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Bandit |
| Location: Madison Alabama |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 11, 2008 - 02:43 PM
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G0dlike
Joined: Feb 03, 2004
Posts: 855
Location: Madison Alabama
Status: Offline
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I'm highly annoyed that you responded to my rant with actual logic.
You now have the interest of this old codger. I used to be one of the better Starcraft players, but I haven't played in probably 5 years now, and last I checked all 3 of my copies of the game were banned from BN due to people "borrowing" my keys at LANs and then using them online. I suppose I can dig out my old disks and look for the patches. |
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lucre |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 11, 2008 - 03:15 PM
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no0b
Joined: Mar 29, 2008
Posts: 14
Status: Offline
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If it's any consolation, I had a half-page long post full of the word "noob" in several iterations, along with vague prods to your sexual preference and proposing the question of whether you, in reality, possessed a brain or not, but firefox crashed when I tried to post it.
=P |
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lucre |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 11, 2008 - 03:19 PM
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no0b
Joined: Mar 29, 2008
Posts: 14
Status: Offline
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Oh yeah--
We will have at least one copy of the game floating around for anyone who can't get their hands on it, as well as a generic CD key (it's already banned from bnet), and we'll have the patch on a thumb drive. |
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